How do you break down silos so your team can win? What role do sales play in the customer experience journey?
When it comes to offering support to keep clients for life, both customer success and operations should be more involved. It’s critical to work on the client’s lifetime value and develop ways to assist them in solving their business problems and improving their experience.
In this episode, Nick Glimsdahl from Press 1 For Nick Podcast and I, talk about his experiences in being a thought leader in both the customer service and customers experience fields, and how it fits in, in the world of sales and sales leaders.
Learn more about creating long-term customer relationships, breaking down silos, and achieve team success.
Find out if your Sales Operation in Scalable
Or go to Jason’s HUB – www.JasonCutter.com
Connect with Nick on LinkedIn.
Nick Glimsdahl, a Director of Contact Center Solutions at VDS, is a thought leader in both the customer service and customer experience fields. He is also is the host of a customer service and customer experience podcast, Press 1 for Nick. The Press 1 For Nick podcast is both educational and engaging, and each episode offers listeners a dynamic blend of insightful stories, best practices, and invaluable lessons
Jason: Hey, what’s going on? Everybody’s so glad that you can join another episode of the scalable call center sales podcast. I am very excited for my conversation that I’m going to have today. I just know it like we’re about to jump into this. I know what we’ve been talking before we hit record, so I know it’s going to be a blast.
[00:00:52] So I’ve got Nick Glimsdahl with me today. He is from press one for Nick, which is a podcast. We’re gonna talk about that as well as VDI. Which is focused on customer service and customer experience in the call center industry. So as the director of contact center solutions at VDS, he is focused on being a thought leader in customer service customer experience.
[00:01:15] Uh, and again, like I said, he hosts this podcast, which we’ll talk about and how that kind of blends in with all of this. Uh, and I know that we’re going to have a blast. Nick, welcome to the scalable call center sales podcast.
Nick: Thank you so much, Jason. Happy to be here. So,
Jason: uh, for people tuning in, if you’re a long-time listener of me, my podcast, my presentations, things that I do, then you already know why I would have someone like Nick on a sales related podcast.
[00:01:42] If you’re new to my show, first welcome. Glad you’re tuning in. If this is the first time listening to a podcast of mine, this should be interesting, especially if you’re in sales, uh, because we’re going to talk about. Where Nick’s focus on customer experience. Customer service fits in, in the world of sales and sales leaders.
[00:02:02] And it might not seem like it does, but obviously it does because sales is setting up the customer experience from the beginning, right. It starts with marketing and branding, then customer or a then sales. And then it goes into them being a customer and in a well-run organization. Then sales and customer service, the front of the house, the back of the house, like from my restaurant, they, everyone is working together and there’s a good integration.
[00:02:31] However, and Nick, let’s talk about this. Cause I think this will be fun. Just a warning for the people listening or watching this. If you think sales and sales, operations and salespeople are untouchable gods in an organization. Where they can do no harm and everyone else is there to serve them. You are going to get triggered by this conversation.
[00:02:51] Um, if you believe that customer service or customer success and the company success are what matters the most, then you’re going to love this conversation. And you’re in the right place. How about that for a
Nick: up Nick? That’s amazing. I couldn’t have said it better myself. Well done.
Jason: So let’s just jump into this. Where do you see like sales? This is a sales podcast, but where do you see sales’ role or part in the customer experience and customer experience journey.
Nick: So if it’s done right, I would say it’s part of a start with done, right? If it’s not broken, uh, if it’s done right, man, you just need to be, it’s need to be part of the entire journey.
[00:03:41] The tough part about sales that are what you’re measured on as a sales person is you go through this journey, you, you wine and dine them at the very beginning. You’re trying to build this relationship. You’re saying, Hey, let’s grab dinner. Let me give you a gift. And then it goes to signing the ink and they’re like, Hey, I no longer get paid on this opportunity.
[00:04:00] Uh, yeah, I’m going to go to the next one I’m out. And they kind of wash their hands and go to the next opportunity. From my perspective, they should be part of this journey and they should be continuing to find ways to get paid through that journey so that they are saying, well, what’s in it for me is I need to keep and retain this customer for life.
[00:04:20] Focus on the customer lifetime value, not necessarily just on that one time commission, but focus on the lifetime value of that customer and finding ways to help solve their business needs and improve their experience. And it just happens to be that you can solve their problem with some of the technology or solutions that you have.
[00:04:41] It’s not always just throwing a square peg in a round hole saying, Hey, I try to, I’m going to hit quota this this month by, by introducing you to a new solution. And then I’m going to walk away again. It’s continuing to stay with them for that journey.
Jason: And so where’s that balance. So, cause as you’re talking about that, that sounds great.
[00:05:00] Right? So compensated. Salespeople based on the lifetime value and the total journey, but I mean, where do you draw that line? Or what percentage would you allocate to that? I, when you’re mentioning that, the part that jumps in my mind is I think customer service, customer success, operations processing, marketing, they’re not necessarily compensated.
[00:05:24] Or bonused in the same way as salespeople are. Right. They, they do their job and obviously they have hopefully some kind of bonus in place, but now you’re talking about, okay, so we’ve got to essentially bribe
[00:05:34] this salesperson to
[00:05:36] care and stay involved. Long-term more than anybody else.
Nick: So I would say that.
[00:05:43] What’s what’s their role on that. And then how does that handoff from sales? Because the sales person can’t be a hundred percent there, a hundred percent of the time they have to go out and, and ground and pound and stay and build relationships with the net new. However, what does that transfer from the sales person to the customer success or to operations or to implementation or to support on that journey?
[00:06:08] And if they’re not a, it’s not a full on. Hey, here’s the brain dump. Let’s meet on a continued basis. Maybe it’s a quarterly business review, uh, that the customer success team is coming back to them. Or account managers is coming back to the sales person saying, Hey, you mentioned this, this and this and this during that discovery.
[00:06:26] And we sold them this, this solution. Here’s the situation today. Maybe it’s a touch base back and forth. Maybe it’s a, and they can jump in on the quarterly business reviews if needed, but it’s not necessarily. Pull back the bandaid and I’m out, uh, situation. I think that both customer success and, and maybe even operations or something should be maybe more involved and, and, uh, when it comes to providing support or, uh, benefit from a commission perspective, keeping that customer for the lifetime and it’s slowly a.
[00:07:03] I don’t think the sales person should say, I’m going to get 20% now and I’m going to get 20% for continuing for it, for infinity. And for the life of that contract, it should be maybe a slowly blend away from it, but there should be constant communication back and forth as needed.
Jason: Got it. And just to clarify what type of.
[00:07:26] Sales product sales cycle size. It sounds like you’re talking, this is B2B obviously, uh, you know, in this kind of
Nick: framework. Yeah. So from my, for what we do as an organization is more the contact center solution. So it’s the, it’s the cloud contact centers. And then it’s kind of the ancillary products around it based off of what.
[00:07:49] Trying to accomplish and the relationships that we’ve built and it’s the sales cycle is anywhere from one year to two years. Maybe it’s it’s as quick as three to six months, it doesn’t happen as often. I mean, I’m with the market today with people trying to make that move to the cloud, people are. Hey, I should have probably moved three months ago and COVID kind of hit a wrecking ball into my window and I, I should probably do something about that.
[00:08:11] And, and we, we, we just happened to find budget, but, you know, it’s, it’s a constant relationship building. Um, adding value being that thought leader, like I said on, like you said, on the press one for Nick podcast and, and getting, giving them the right value at the right time and not trying to find ways to bamboo.
[00:08:31] Because everybody’s getting bamboozled by, by their organizations and they just want to find ways, like, how do I pull back the curtain from everybody else? And you just tell me the truth like that. That’d be neat. That would be neat. I love
Jason: that. Um, well, and I, I think, especially putting in perspective for, for people tuning into this is when you’re talking about a sales cycle, that if you’re lucky and the.
[00:08:57] Universe aligns. Unfortunately like it did with a pandemic, the shorten your sales cycle to three months, that’s like the,
Jason: fastest cause you know, it’s kind of a crisis for call centers at that time when everyone had to go remote. But normally you’re looking at a one to three year sales cycle. The amount of relationship that’s built with the sales person and that customer, once the deal is inked, right.
[00:09:22] And then moves on. Yes. That can make for a very abrupt ending, which is like, Hey, I know we’ve been friends for a year and I know I’ve been like pretending to be your friend, or it feels like it, uh, for a year. And now that it’s over, like, um, And I’ll never talk to you again. Um, so obviously people tuning in there’s, it’s going to be relative to what your sales cycle are.
[00:09:43] If it’s shorter, it’s like, what does that look like? I think I love what you said though about, uh, you know, uh, especially in a B2B sale, the quarterly business review with that client like that, that should be the salesperson has the initial relationship. And, uh, I think
Nick: that advice is, is great. Well, just think of, I always go back to sports.
[00:10:04] Just think if you had a teammate, I dunno football player, and you have the offensive line and you get to know them and they say, Hey, I got your you’re the quarterback, because everybody has a. As a prospect should be the hero of the journey. And so for me, it’s in the marketing story. I am the guide in that.
[00:10:25] So I I’m, I’m covering there six in the, as a quarterback, but all of a sudden the play happens and we get the touchdown. I’m like, Hey, just want to let you. Um, there’s going to be somebody else covering this and, uh, best of luck. I mean, they’re, they’re pretty good, but you know, they’re a little bit smaller.
[00:10:42] Maybe don’t weigh as much and they have only two years experience instead of the 20 that I had. Uh, they’re going to be like, what, what do you mean? I still need you. I still need that protection of the things that I can’t see today.
Jason: Yeah. Yeah. I think that analogy is great. I mean, you see that with, especially if you look at sports, I mean, there’s people who are traded all the time.
[00:11:04] I mean, it’s still a business and, uh, you know, how much that upsets and disrupts, like the trust and the relationships and then how that has to be rebuilt. So what are some examples of. Where you’ve seen that done, right? Not just for you internally, like with what you have with your sales cycle, but obviously, you know, you have an interesting perspective and your organization does, especially with the podcast too, is where you have insight into what others are doing, not just your, you know, what you have on, on your sales side.
[00:11:35] Um, what are some examples of where sales. And the overall, like let’s just call it customer experience. Operation is working together well for the benefit of the clients and the
Nick: company. Yeah. I mean, one that just popped into mind. I interviewed a couple people from an organization called Lexus nexus and, um, they’re based out of, uh, Ohio here and they realized that there was a gap between the sales drop off.
[00:12:05] Hey, uh, high five, uh, we made a sale. Everybody’s excited and let’s throw a, a celebration. Let me give you a cake. I go live. And the transition from that day, zero or day one to day 60 day 60, all of a sudden they’re like, well, wait, they promised this, they said this, this was their timeline. This is the communication that they said they were going to do.
[00:12:28] And there was that gray area. Every time there’s a gray area as an, as an organization or as it. I feel like I’m going to go to the worst case scenario. Uh, they hate me. Uh, they’re not doing this. They’re going, gonna overcharge me, like whatever that costs or whatever it is. And they realize that there was that gap.
[00:12:45] So they, they created a department, put somebody in that department and ran it. They built it from the ground up. And now it’s a customer success group from, I think day, zero or day one to day six. And it’s kind of that, that medium, where they’re, hand-holding still that high touch that they were experiencing as a sales group, uh, on the sales team and they transition it and it’s still like, Hey, I’m still your, I’m still a good friend.
[00:13:09] I’m still hanging out with you. I’m still gonna communicate with you. Maybe over communicate with you, give you what you need, answer all the specific questions that you have so that it all is. Uh, so you have peace of mind on this journey because it’s still uncomfortable regardless of how easy. And then they transitioned it to that.
[00:13:27] The next side, the retention that they had was unreal of, of transitioning and just implementing that customer success.
Jason: So was that customer success department that they formed actually like doing implementation, onboarding account management in that interim, like you said, it sounded like, uh, like this two day window or like what, what were they actually focused on?
Nick: Transition from CA I mean, from my perspective, I’ll have to go back and listen to my own episode. But, uh, from my perspective, it was, they weren’t doing any of the implementation. It was all, it was all communication and making sure that that individual or that organization had that piece of. Got it. Okay.
[00:14:12] So they weren’t the minions on the backend doing the work, the implementation, the technical, the integration, whatever it is, they were the constant communication, more the project managers of, of the org than they were the, uh, implementation. I love
Jason: it. I think that’s great. That reminds me of when, uh, I worked at Microsoft for a couple of years, a long time ago when I still didn’t know what I want.
[00:14:35] I still don’t know what I want to do now, when I really didn’t know what I wanted to do. Um, when I grew up is, um, I, I met somebody who I became friends with in a training and he, his role was technical account manager. And he was the liaison with Microsoft’s corporate clients. So he was one of a handful of people that dealt with bank of America.
[00:14:55] And his job was to be that intermediary between the customer and what they needed and making sure they were happy. And then the engineers and technicians who talked engineer talk and technician talk and like bridging that gap to make sure the customer was always happy and taken care of. Uh, and I think that’s great.
[00:15:13] I think a lot of. You know, people go from sales to implementation or onboarding or whatever that is. And then that person is technical or in the weeds, or focused on the success of the project and not the success of the customer experience and that relationship. So, uh, I love that example. I think that.
Nick: Yeah, it’s awesome. Yeah. Even on our side, on the BDS side, where we really saw a gap between what the manufacturer was doing and what the customer actually wanted, the manufacturer is really good at providing the technology really good at innovating. Really good at integrating, uh, having the developer.
[00:15:52] They were not the best at creating the high touch experience that they wanted and resolving a lot of the problems. And so we stepped in, I mean, this was, we kind of grew up in the UC space the last 10, 15 years now we kind of transitioned to cloud contact center only. And, um, that’s our goal is to be the, be the mortar between the bricks and help solve those problems.
[00:16:18] Designing it implementing it, pull the curtain curtain back on the manufacturer or supporting the organization. That’s it’s been a fun journey to. Help people see that.
Jason: All right. So that’s a great example of the Lexus nexus one. And, uh, obviously anyone wants to check out that full episode, uh, go to, uh, was it press one for nick.com/podcast, which we’ll mention at the end, but, uh, I think your podcast is amazing.
[00:16:44] So, but want to plug that as much as I can. So that’s a great example, not from the podcast, cause I don’t want you to point the fingers at guests that maybe we’re doing it wrong, but just in your experience and what you’ve seen, like what are some examples of where you’ve just. Like not affective, uh, that sales to customer experience.
[00:17:03] Just the whole thing. Like
Nick: that comes to mind with that? Yeah. The one thing that just popped into my head a couple of years ago, my front door, we, we, we we’ve been in this house for, you know, quite a few years now when the, the gold handle, uh, on my screen door fell off and I was like, this is awesome.
[00:17:23] Great. Okay. This is, let’s see what this experience is going to be like. Cause I don’t know who the company is and searched around and I found the company’s name and I can’t can’t remember them off hand. But I pulled up their website on my phone and it said, Hey, you want to chat? And I was like, great.
[00:17:36] Yeah, let’s, let’s do this. Let’s chat and, uh, chatted back and forth. They said, oh, what’s the part number? I looked at the part number of somehow I found it in there. They said, tell me about the experience. Is it rusty? What’s going on? How to fall apart? Do you have a warranty on this? And I was like, perfect.
[00:17:54] Like, here’s the, they said, here’s the price. Can I just pay for it? Can I, can I apple pay? Can I, you know, Zelle, like what’s the best way for me to deliver that experience? Uh, actually here’s a phone number. Will you please just go back, uh, into, you know, hang up with me cause I can’t transfer you and go back in queue.
[00:18:14] Cause I was actually chatting, but they, you know, I can’t have somebody call you and go back and Q and a it’ll probably be about 20. That is the worst experience. Obviously, there’s, there’s another one that I can, uh, I won’t throw them under the bus, but, uh, that was one of the experiences. Uh, another one I had to actually reach out to the chief customer officer of the fortune 100, uh, retail company, because, uh, I had 20 interactions with the call center and they basically said I couldn’t do anything.
[00:18:43] And I had a warranty. Uh, the dishwasher was implemented wrong. And the water was coming back into the dishwasher. And that was great because then it was creating mold and there was all sorts of shenanigans on that then, but in less, I reached out to him after 20 interactions with the call center, chat, email, uh, everything, voice, they basically said, good luck until I reached out to them.
[00:19:10] They’re like, yeah, we can’t do anything. Within 48 hours. I had a brand new dishwasher in my warranty. And it wasn’t because they had a great process is because I figured out the best way that to solve my problem. And I shouldn’t have to do that because how many people were in my situation that just said, screw it.
[00:19:30] I’m going to a different company. And I’m taking all of my business with me of my future business with me. And it’s, it’s unfortunate that it has to come to that where I have to say. Not, it wasn’t even a nasty gram just said, Hey, here’s, here’s my experience. Like I even created like a three page PowerPoint and it just said, here’s the steps that I’ve done.
[00:19:50] You tell me how you should solve this problem. And immediately I got to like the executive escalation team in customer service and he’s like, how can I help? I’m here? I’m here for you. How do I have that experience every time that I’m here for you? Yeah. And I, and it’s,
Jason: it’s interesting to think of, you know, what an organization did, what they put in place or is not in place to just have those right.
[00:20:17] B, B how much are the frontline people empowered to succeed? Right. We look at
Nick: one of the best case studies
Jason: for this would be Zappos where you’re buying something online shoes. If you have any issues, call customer service, they literally, each person is empowered with a budget of a certain amount of money to just
Nick: fix whatever it is.
Jason: And provide a good experience, um, versus like what you had where you know, this disconnect from, I bought this thing too. I need some help too. I was promised that this should work too. I’ve got to go through a lot of efforts to even make things. Right. Which, you know, again, like you said, the challenges, a lot of companies, they’re not going to notice it when those people leave because a lot of people just leave silently and then.
[00:21:05] They don’t realize that the effect of their sales and customer experience.
Nick: Yeah. If I could go back to probably go back to, uh, the nineties, maybe it was before that, but, uh, uh, it’s the whole silent. Uh, all right. It’s, it’s, it’s gonna, it’s gonna stink. I don’t know where it came from, but, uh, it it’s going to hurt my business and eventually it’s going to be real slow and then it’s gonna hit me, uh, um, horrible analogy, but I think, um, At the end of the day, people really don’t really measure the retention of the organization because that’s not what they’re measured on.
[00:21:43] They don’t similar to customer experience. I mean, at the end of the day, if you’re not focusing on the customer experience, if you’re not leaning into the employee experience on, on both sides, they’re going to feel it. And you’re going to have retention issues on either. So let’s talk about that. Since
Jason: you brought it up, then we’ll go back to talking about the sales side.
[00:22:05] I was going to say, go back to bashing sales, but go back to the, talking about the sales side. And again, with the goal of making this successful for organizations that are listening to this. Um, but what do you, what, what have you seen work well or what kind of things in place for that employee experience?
[00:22:22] Because whether it’s sales, customer service, pretension, uh, back office, whatever it is. The customer or the employee experience will lead to the customer experience that you want, um, for your customers, right?
Nick: Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, happy, happy employees, equal happy customers. And the question is what, what does that look like?
[00:22:48] It’s, it’s not this magic bullet. It’s not like, Hey, I have a kegerator in the corner and that’s going to be, you get to wear a Flamingo shirts on Friday. Like. That’s not the, the culture, the experience to drive customer experience, but what is the employee’s journey? What’s the employees. Um, what’s their, why on helping the customer?
[00:23:12] And it could be a director to, um, human interaction with another customer, but at the end of the day, regardless of how many. Employees or between you and the customer, it always ends with the customer. And so if you actually think through that and you understand how, what’s your, why in that, in that journey, you would assume that you would think different.
[00:23:34] You would assume that these people are coming in and they’re trying to solve a problem because we didn’t hit expectations. Customer service happens when customer experience fails, and if you can truly build a relationship, understand where they’re at today. And solve their problem in the least amount of effort, they’re going to have a better experience, but if you don’t have the people, the right people in the right place, right.
[00:24:00] It’s the book traction, are you, am I sitting in the right seat? Am I on the right bus? Am I facing the right direction? Uh, you can have the bus analogy of the canoe analogy or whatever, but. Is there the right people. Do you have the right processes in place to make it easy? And then it’s, I think technology just because I sell technology doesn’t mean, I think technology is first.
[00:24:23] If anything, it should be a conduit to solving business objectives or business issues or customers, experiences, not the other way around. And if you don’t have those in place, And consistently monitoring them through, through data. If it’s poll surveys or anything else, then you’re going to continue to go backwards.
[00:24:44] Um, but if you don’t have all of that in place, you’re not gonna improve your customer experience because they’re not set up for success
Jason: from what I’ve seen. And I want to know if you have any idea on how from this house. I feel like there’s a lot of companies that try to solve their operational problems, their people problems, their customer, their sales problems, whatever it is with technology first, if I just get the latest widget or another widget, something in sales enablement, customer enablement, then that will fix it for me.
[00:25:19] How often, or are you seeing that as what companies are asking for. Um, and then where does that fit into you selling? Let’s say technology and going, I can sell
Nick: you this, but we
Jason: got some other problems to fix first, or it’s not going to work because
Nick: everything’s on. Yeah, for, for us at the VA on the BDS side, it’s our goal to do a discovery first.
[00:25:43] It’s not necessarily saying, Hey, let me open up my black leather jacket, show you which contact centers we have and slam on in. And it’s, it’s truly understanding where they’re at. And then what are, what are the customer’s experience or what are their metrics that they’re trying to. What are they, what are their pain points?
[00:26:00] What this what’s the sentiment analysis, maybe that the customers are feeling, but to interview their frontline employees at the interview, the supervisors and let them let’s interview the executives too, because what are the, what are the executives trying to accomplish as well? If you can align all of those, then you can bring it back to technology.
[00:26:16] But the problem that I see, like you said, is people will. We’ll say, Hey, we need this solution. And I’m like, great. Tell me more about that. Like what, what makes you, instead of just saying why, like, why you’re an idiot, don’t do that. You know, that like go backwards a little bit, take a few more steps back and say, what, what makes you want to do that?
[00:26:39] Uh, tell me more about why you feel like that is the right solution. And if you actually just ask the right questions and sit back and shut up and listen to them. And let them be heard. And then you can give your opinion. If you just say, this is the best solution and you say, oh yeah, you’re right. A hundred percent, right.
[00:26:59] Let me implement it for you. And you don’t solve their problem, then you’re just like everybody else. You’re not actually the thought leader. You’re not actually the subject matter expert. You’re saying I’m going to make a sale. Then you’re just like every other sales.
Jason: Yeah, and such good advice, such good standard sales advice that I don’t, I still see companies and individuals struggle with where they think their job is to just talk about features and benefits and push, whatever they’re selling on everybody.
[00:27:26] They drank the Kool-Aid. They think everyone should just want it doesn’t matter if it’s actually gonna work for you, which goes back to kind of where we started in this conversation. And. Yeah, and I, and I can see now why you’re talking about your sales cycles being so long because you’re doing that discovery or going through that whole process.
[00:27:41] Obviously people listening or watching this might think, well, I don’t want to have a one to three year sales cycle. I’ve got a one month or a one week sales cycle. I mean, take it and make it relative to what you’re doing, but fundamentally if you’re selling something, especially as a technology piece, here’s what I know.
[00:27:58] And please confirm this, Nick is that if you’re just selling your technology to whoever says they think they want it, then there is a much lower chance that it’s actually going to succeed. If those other parts aren’t in the place, like you said, the people process and then technology as something else.
Nick: Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, if you’re not solving their problem and you’re not staying with them to, uh, fix the technology that you sold. Then you’re you’re, you’re, they’re going to jump to somebody else. Most of my opportunities today. It’s so interesting. What 20% of the market, I don’t know the exact stats, but have gone to the cloud today.
[00:28:39] Most of the, my opportunities who companies who have come to me to help them solve their cloud contact center solutions have already, again, gone to the cloud once. And so how do I. What does that mean from, for me? I think they are, they’re getting, they’re drinking the Kool-Aid and they’re getting bamboozled by somebody that says we’re the best.
[00:29:00] We’re the greatest. And here’s why all these other guys are not good. And then they leave. And so it’s, it’s a continuous cycle and it’s not healthy and it needs to be.
Jason: Yeah. Uh, and I can totally see that. I mean, and then the challenge with that is like, especially this is for the sales side, for people who are in sales is you might think, oh, that’s great.
[00:29:23] Cause they, they already understand cloud and they did it and this’ll be easier. Right. Or they already have signed up for this kind of thing. So this will be easier. Right? The challenge is, is that they didn’t have a good experience if they thought that it was a waste of money. If they feel. Cloud technology is the problem.
[00:29:39] Or they think that I signed up for a gym before and I, it didn’t work out and the gym is the problem. And it’s like, okay, now you’re trying to get them to sign up for a new gym. You’re actually sometimes up against a bigger wall because they have this negative experience, right. Or this waste
Nick: of money.
[00:29:58] Yeah. I mean, just think if, again, I have the worst analogies in the world, but just pretend that somebody was a, uh, some dog was an awesome dog, but a horrible owner. And they were like, Hey, I’m going to put this dog up in the kennel and put off her adoption because. I don’t need this anymore. I don’t want to deal with it.
[00:30:19] And then this new owner shows up and they’re like, Hey, I’m going to solve all your problems. I’m going to give you the best toys, the best bed. And by the way, there’s a pool in my backyard. If you want to jump in that and the dog, like, oh, like, who are you? Like, are you going to hit me? Is, are you going to feed me on time?
[00:30:34] Are you going to Kendall me for 24 hours a day? Like. That takes a journey and it takes education. It takes time, and there’s not going to be a time regardless of the technology that sometimes that you just have to take that time and educate them and answer any questions and be there for them. And maybe even have empathy in the moment.
[00:30:52] And then at the right time solve their problems. Where do you see. The
Jason: responsibility or, or who, or where in the organization or how do you make it successful to look at the call center? And this is sales to service, to everything, to look at it holistically and want to like integrate as much as possible and look at it instead of the silo, right?
[00:31:19] Instead of customer service leader saying, I want this and sales saying, I want that. And everyone is just totally.
Nick: Yeah, it still happens. But I would say that historically the call center or the contact center used to be a cost center or the necessary evil. It is now somebody who once said recently that the contact center is the front door to your business now more than ever.
[00:31:45] And it’s all of the things that it’s, uh, all of its tentacles are getting pushed into everywhere else, all the channels, all the social, the listening, the analytics. And so the more that customer experience is getting pushed out, the more customer experience departments or marketing is saying, wait, you have, you have the data that I want.
[00:32:06] You’ve had it this entire time. I just need to access it and, and, and change it and adapt it and make it clean. And then turn into a story so that I can get more budget or solve more problems. And the contact center leaders like, well, yeah, you just haven’t asked for it or operations or sales. Hey sales, by the way, here’s the things that are, that we’re dropping the ball on.
[00:32:28] Here’s some of the pain points that our current customers are feeling, or that have had along that journey of customer successes, even saying the same thing of, Hey, on that 60 day journey or that window where we’ve helped them on that journey. Here’s some of the pain points that they had that they felt, or they felt maybe that you bamboozled them alone.
[00:32:46] Or you weren’t clear on their expectations. So constantly bringing it back from what they heard and, and kind of having that full cycle that post-mortem at the end of the conversation at the end of the implementation, um, and saying, this is where we dropped the ball and here’s how we’re going to improve.
[00:33:03] But the, the, the context center in general has so much data that can get pushed into every single the operations, the, the marketing team, uh, the customer experience team. Uh, you name it. They all have the ability to gain access and add valuable information from the contact center. So I would highly recommend everybody kind of leaning in saying, Hey, this is the information that I’m trying to solve for.
[00:33:30] Do you guys have it, or can we work with you to do it
Jason: for the organizations you’ve seen that have been successful at doing that holistically sharing data back and forth, supporting each other. W what does that take from a leadership standpoint? Or is there anything that they have in place or have created in their organization to foster that
Nick: there is a couple of organizations come to mind?
[00:33:59] I think individuals kind of like what I said about getting measured and paid or commissioned on specific things. So if I’m in marketing or if I’m in sales or if I’m an operations, I call it the Heisman approach where it’s the football is, is their department and they just kind of stiff arm everybody else.
[00:34:18] And you’re like, well, if you’re going to try to bring me a problem and I’m not measured on it, or I’m not bonused on that, then I’m good. Like, I’m just going to give you the stiff arm and I’m going to move as fast as I can in the direction that can solve my problem and get paid for it. If you break down those silos and every, you know, maybe you have.
[00:34:39] You’re saying, okay, well you’re in sales or you’re in operations. You’re in customer experience, you’re in marketing, whatever it is. Here’s your purse portion of what you’re measured on when it comes to the customer experience. Um, if the senior leadership is constantly talking about talking about it, not just.
[00:34:57] The pixie destined fairytales, not just the, Hey, I heard about customer experience. So, uh, on this last webinar and one of my peers is doing it. So I think we should probably put 50 bucks towards it. It’s not going to sell them anybody’s problem, or if you’re not actually measuring on it, or if you’re not continuing to talk about it.
[00:35:14] And you’re saying here’s some of the things that we’ve solved for, or here’s some of the pain points that we have and what we’re going to do on that journey. And it’s going to fail. If you can, continuing to submerge yourself. And focus on the customer and you kind of break down those silos and saying, Hey, here’s what we’re going to do.
[00:35:33] Uh, there’s, there’s all sorts of Amazon. I think with all their senior leadership, once a year has to sit in the contact center for, for one day and listen to the conversations and they can kind of see what what’s going on. What’s not going on. Some, some organizations have an empty seat at the table, and that’s the seat of the most important person in the room, which is the customer.
[00:35:54] Uh, there is, are other organizations that then. When you, you talked about the getting the latest and greatest technology at the end of the day. If you’re, if you’re asking that question to the customer, say that they want this, or will this help the customer, that some of those things that you just want to keep in mind at the back of your head, or maybe it’s the front of your front of your mouth, where you’re saying, this is what we’re going to do, and this is how it’s going to solve the customer’s problem.
[00:36:20] Not just because it’s a, it’s a cool gadget that I want him. Got it. I
Jason: love it. Um,
Nick: what do you see as
Jason: the near future for call center sales, operations, customer experience, you know, both of those, um, obviously we’re in the final quarter of 20, 21. Like what do you see for the rest of this year? 2022, uh, from the customer side, their preferences technology regulation.
[00:36:54] What is, what is the press one for Nick’s crystal ball saying for, uh, you know, what’s coming near.
Nick: Yeah. So if I can get the, the, the lights down and I can get the crystal ball in front of me and kind of the fog coming over, my, my noggin there’s customers’ expectations are constantly getting more and more demanding.
[00:37:17] Um, and so what I see organizations do. Is how am I taking all of this, um, segmented information, segmented channels, segmented, um, applications in streamlining it for a better experience for both the employee and for the customer, because the more that you can dig down and solve those problems and focus on the customer and the employee, the, the more that you’re going to have success, the.
[00:37:49] They’re going to continue to find ways to say, oh, I want to be on this channel. And I want to be an Instagram. I want to be on a S um, a WhatsApp. I want to be on text, and I want you to meet me there on the challenge of my choice and solve my problem inside that channel with the least amount of effort.
[00:38:07] And if you don’t, I know somebody who will, and it’s, it’s your silent, it’s a competitor, and you’re going to, they’re going to go away. It’s easier now, more than ever. To move to your competitor, to, for your customers to move to your competitor. And they just will, because the, it it’s, it’s no longer, Hey, uh, my, my roommate or my family member bought tide soap when I was younger.
[00:38:30] So I’m going to buy tide soap for the rest of my life. It’s tied. So pay you customer service. In a row in a, in a sea of 4,000 people, you gave me a bad experience. And for that, I’m going to leave your organization. Even though I was there, I was with you guys for the last 20 years. So stay vigilant and focusing on the customer and finding ways to solve their problem and the least amount of effort in the channel of their choice.
Jason: and I think that channel of your choice omni-channel approach, uh, definitely applies to the sales side. So for sales leaders, listening to this or watching it as well, like how do they want to start the process of buying? And then there’s, how do they want service? And you said something earlier and, and
Nick: hopefully, hopefully it’s, uh, a
Jason: line that you know, that you can repeat because I want people to hear it again right now.
[00:39:22] You said something like customer service is the beginning where customer experience phase.
Nick: Yeah, customer service starts we’re customer experience. Our customer service starts where customer experience fails. And because if you’re not meeting the expectation of the customer, Nobody calls into a call center, a contact center and says, Hey, Jason, I just want to let you know, I’m having an awesome day.
[00:39:45] Uh, yet service is awesome. Your, your product is amazing. And, uh, you know, I’ll just talk to you. Talk to you tomorrow. It’s air high five. It’s it’s all about you drop the ball. I’m going to start listening to Rocky music before I call, and I’m getting ready to rip you for the next two minutes and you’re going to take it because you’ve taken it for the last 30 days.
[00:40:06] And I’m going to try to get everything. I’m going to try to make sure the juice is worth the squeeze. And it’s, it’s unfortunate, but if customer service doesn’t educate customer experience and bring it back full cycle and say, Hey, we’ve had 17 of these calls. Where were you guys where the organization didn’t meet expectations.
[00:40:29] Maybe we should do something about that. Cause I’m, I’m tired of getting berated every day by the.
Jason: One final question, because I think it’s so important, especially in this climate that we have. So we’re recording this in September, 2021. Uh, one of the biggest challenge I see with so many organizations, both on sales and service just in general right now is recruiting. And retention. It’s hiring people.
[00:40:58] It’s finding good people who want to work and then it’s keeping them because just like what you said about brand loyalty, depending on how people are feeling, there’s so many companies that need. Uh, company loyalty. It feels really low right now. If you can even get people in the door, what are you seeing as some solutions or companies who are doing it?
[00:41:18] Well, especially in the call center sales contact center space, where, you know, you’re looking for a certain person, then also you’re not, you don’t have an unlimited budget for.
Nick: That’s right for salaries. Yeah, it’s actually funny. So I I’m going to be interviewing a guy and I just, I just read his book and it’s called work quick.
[00:41:39] Uh, so it’s Steve, uh, cat again, he was the chief first chief human resource officer at LinkedIn. And he’s like, you know, at the end of the day, It’s it’s, it’s not necessarily, Hey, here’s all these gadgets here is a, a coffee mug and a, a vast with our logo on it. So you should stay with us for about 10, 15 years, right?
[00:42:03] It’s where are you at today? And at the end of the day, he, he even mentioned. Customers or specifically in the customer service space, if you get 25 cents more per hour, and they’re going to give you a better process, or they’re going to provide a better experience for you on the technology side and reduce effort.
[00:42:22] So you’re not looking at 27 apps trying to solve a customer’s problem and, you know, delaying them and saying, Hey, how’s the weather in, uh, Dallas, while you are trying to fumble your next application, but he’s like help them. From where they’re at, help them understand where they want to go as a individual, as a professional.
[00:42:44] And then if it’s with your organization or not help them. And, and what he’s mentioned multiple times in the book and is it’s not necessarily, Hey, I want to keep you around. It’s what’s the old analogy. What, uh, what happens if I train somebody up and they leave and somebody is like, well, what happens if I don’t train the person up?
[00:43:04] And they stay like, that’s, that’s hilarious, but he’s like, make sure that you build successful people and you continue to adapt and build the 18. And if they, hopefully they stay, but at the end of the day, you’re helping organization or you’re helping individuals grow. And it’s tough. I mean, yeah, you can throw out, um, like I said, the, the flamingos on Friday, and I think that is a fun touch if you really want to or whatever that is.
[00:43:31] But I think it said an individual level to, uh, what is what’s important to that specific. And how can you potentially meet their demands? Hey, you know what, every Wednesday at four 30, my son has a soccer game. Okay. So how can I, what does that mean to that individual and how can I help them solve that problem?
[00:43:53] And then if I said every Wednesday at four o’clock, I hope, you know, you got a 26 minute drive to the soccer game. I know you can make it, you know, uh, tell me about what the, what the score was on Wednesday or on Thursday. It’s a different mindset than saying, Hey, so my workforce management application says that you you’ve missed every Wednesday.
[00:44:15] You’ve left every Wednesday at four. And what that does to me, and that changes their mindset. And you’re like, well, w what, what do they really care? Am I just a number? And if you, if your employees feel like a number, your customers are gonna feel like.
Jason: Well, and so here’s what I love about that. And this is where I take this too, as well is, uh, and I used to save this as the closing line of my previous podcast, which is everything in life is sales and what literally you and I were talking about.
[00:44:46] And you were focusing on in our conversation about selling, which you do, uh, and good sales people do, which is asking questions, discovering. Listening being quiet, like using that information to help solve their actual problem. Instead of just assuming everyone wants to buy from you and pushing what you’ve got is you actually take
Nick: that same
Jason: approach because everything is sales and you move that into leadership.
[00:45:12] And if you did that same thing that you would do for customers in a proper sales process for your employees, which is what’s important to them, what do they want? They’re an individual. How do I solve their problems? How do I make them successful? My product, which is a job. Um, it’s literally the same principles.
[00:45:30] And what’s interesting is when I see organizations that don’t do sales well, or they’re doing it in the classic mode, then generally they treat their employees the same way because they just
Nick: think everything is a,
Jason: here’s the way to do it. And I already know what you want and it doesn’t matter what you think you need.
Nick: Yeah. If you’re selling widgets and if you’re treating your employees like a widget, just to solve a problem, you’re a manager. You’re not. If you are continuing to find ways to engage with your customers or with your employees, you understand what their, what their needs are and why, why it’s important to them.
[00:46:05] Then you can kind of reverse engineer that to meet their expectations. And somebody once said, I think it was Shep Hyken customer service legend. He said, um, oh, actually I think it was, it was as Eisler. Um, he said, uh, You don’t have to be amazing and customer service, you just have to beat the DMV. And I thought that was funny.
[00:46:28] Like you, you don’t just, just be better than average than, than, than everybody else. And you’re going to be just fine. But if at the end of the day, like you said, just, just listen to what people have to say. If they’re your customers or your employees, here’s the amount. And then don’t just say, okay, well, thanks for saying that, but do something about it, acknowledge, understand, and then resolve their problems.
[00:46:49] I love it. Oh, we have that same
Jason: saying, uh, in, uh, surfing and scuba diving, which is you don’t have to be faster than the shark. You just have to be faster than your buddy. Um, so it’s, you know, it’s, it’s pretty much the same thing, right? Like I love it. I don’t have to be, I don’t have to be faster
Nick: than a shark.
[00:47:04] I should have some faster than you. Uh, I’m now using. Yes. It also applies to bears,
Jason: uh, and, uh, all kinds of all kinds of things chasing you. Um, so I think that’s an awesome way to end, you know, wrapping up at tying in all of the sales, the customer experience side. I mentioned it before for people who want to check it out, your podcast is amazing.
[00:47:25] It’s press one for Nick, which is the number one, press one for nick.com/podcast. Also, if they want to find out about the call center cloud contact center solutions, the things that you’re talking to. I know that website for you is go V D s.com. Um, I know that they can find you on LinkedIn because that’s where we’ve chatted many times anywhere else people can find you or some content or anything that you’re putting out there that you’re excited that.
Nick: Yeah. I mean, where I appreciate that anywhere where podcasts are played, search four, press one for Nick, if you want to learn more, like he said, he’s focused on customer service and customer experience. We, we bring on, uh, all sorts of leaders and, and, um, you know, I think we’re on episode 98, 99, something like that.
[00:48:08] So looking forward. Yeah, it’s, it’s been, uh, been a blast. Uh, there’s a lot of lessons learned. Um, we can, we can have a whole nother podcast about lessons learned on podcasts, but, you know, uh, any, you know, reach out to me on LinkedIn. I’m very active on LinkedIn. I’m starting to get pretty active on, on YouTube as well.
[00:48:26] So feel free to reach out to me. Uh, uh, if you can’t find me, um, then you spelled it wrong. Uh, so, uh, take a look in the show notes and, and, uh, find me and happy to. Awesome. I
Jason: appreciate it, Nick. Thanks for coming on here. And, uh, doing what I thought would happen for us, which is talking about customer service sales and blending it, and hopefully helping people succeed while us having some fun at it.
[00:48:50] So I appreciate you and what you’re doing for that side and organizations in general. And I appreciate you coming on here and sharing with this audience. So thank you for.
Nick: You bet, man had a blast. Thanks for the opportunity. Did you get some inspirations of ways to help your call center sales team win bigger, stronger, and faster.
[00:49:09] Hope you are fired up to scale your sales operations. If you got value from this podcast, please go in and leave a rating and review also make sure to forward this episode to anyone else, you know, in the call center space, we appreciate your support in growing the scalable call center sales podcast, fam.
[00:49:28] And if you have any comments, ideas, or feedback, contact firstname.lastname@example.org. .