This is part four of the conversation I had with Joe.
In Part 4, Joe and I talk about:
- How many seeds you have to plant with prospects for fruit to grow
- Abundance (meaning… don’t be afraid of losing a prospect that wasn’t a good fit)
- Empathy wins
Download The Power of Authentic Persuasion ebook
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Connect with Joe on LinkedIn
He is the founder of The Executive Recruiter Network, an Advisor to Facebook, a LinkedIn Consultant, and with his firm Tash Rizzo – he helps recruiting and staffing companies with their lead generation strategies.
E171 – Transcript
Jason: Alright. Welcome back to the sales experience podcast. My name again is Jason Cutter. So glad that you’re here. I know that if you’re here, I will assume that that means that you want to shift the way that you do sales, your results, how you’re operating, or if you’re managing a team or leading a team, you want to find ways to help improve your sales leadership as well as ways to help your team be successful with their goals, with their business so that they can achieve what they want, thus helping your business. And so I appreciate the fact that if you’re listening to this, that means at some level you’re either curious or you know that you want to make a difference in your sales career and also help your prospects. So I appreciate that just fundamentally means something very important to me. And so I’m thankful for everyone listening to this.
Jason: Even if we never talk, if I never meet you, I appreciate you taking the time to listen to this and hopefully make a difference in the world via sales and the way that it’s done. And you’re catching this at a very exciting time. Make sure that you checked out one, two and three of my conversation with Joe. But Joe Rizzo and I, we’re going to finish off here part four. Talk about the final parts of sales and success and what you know, successful people do, unsuccessful people. And then we’re going to talk a bit right at the end. You know, where he’s going to drop some knowledge and leave you with something important from his experience. And so I hope you appreciated this mini series in this conversation I had with Joe as much as I had having it with him and recording it and uh, all of his links we’ll have at the end. And then obviously you can check them out the website. Here you go. Part four. Enjoy.
Jason: So for the salespeople out there who are taking a lead, how do you set that up? How do you set like you yourself, how does Joe set up your clients to be successful with the marketing that they’re getting in ways that other salespeople, if they’re getting marketing, like what should they be doing when they get a new lead or you know, how do they process it? What do they need to know? How do they handle it? What’s Joe’s pro tips for receiving leads, whether they’re good or bad, Neil, Glengarry or not you said.
Joe: So the way we try to set it up is obviously we consider a lead. Somebody that wants to talk to you about your service, understand your service. I think a lot of times people will look, you know, I’ve heard people say, Hey, a lead is the phone number and it’s almost willing to talk to you, but do they even know what you’re talking about? So we do our best to make sure that they understand what the conversation’s going to be about. And then, you know, we don’t want to go overly qualified because these are business owners that are also busy. And if we’re trying to really distill the lead too much, that person just become disinterested for that recruiter. So the way we set that up, it’s really just a, you know, this is what I’d like to talk to you about.
Joe: We’re letting them know. And that person, is that what we call the one to 3% they’re ready to have that conversation. Now I’ve heard you mentioned this before as well, but sometimes you’re just planting the seeds that other 97% so you know, that’s the way we set the lead is like, Hey, one to 3% they want to talk to you now and they’re ready to close the other 97% we’ve got to make sure that we’re warming up. So when you have that conversation, they’re ready to have it. So we tell people when you received this lead, don’t just look at the fact that they came in and they want to have a conversation with you. Reach out to them. It’s about being proactive. You can take that extra step to take a look at the company. So you know, you understand, we do our best.
Joe: Make sure our targeting is on point with type of companies that they’re going after. The number of individuals inside the company, the company size, all of the things we’ve done part target research, make sure we’re going outside audience because it’s the right person with the right message. But then that salesperson to best prepare them is really taking action quickly. Again, you know, whether it’s, I came from the mortgage background and oftentimes it’s like the person on the phone quickest would win. And so you know, we’re all offering the same thing. Same banks are buying from me. They were buying from somebody else, but it was getting in having that conversation. But as also what your point is not be so quick to not ask the questions. Oftentimes they’re so excited. They’ve, these recruiters may have been doing cold calling or meeting at networking events or getting referrals, which are great ways to get business if you’re asking and generating those, that referral.
Joe: However, when you get a lead in, you still gotta ask the question. Don’t be afraid of losing that lead to make sure that you’re a good fit. Right? Is this the position that you could actually feel? So I tell them, make sure to ask the questions because if you spend enough time with them, they know that you understand their business and you’re not just another person that is trying to get a deal from them. So when I’m telling our clients to say, Hey, make sure that you’re asking the right questions, that you asking questions to make sure that you’re a good fit for them, but also they spent enough time with you that they’re committed to you as well because they might have three or four recruiters that come and say, we’ll do it free. It’s called contingent where you can pay us only if we play somebody and they’ll be like, sure, I’ll work with you.
Joe: Sure I’ll work with you. But if you ask enough questions, you can separate yourself from everybody else and start being the person who actually understands their business where they’re, I thought no one else asked that question. Why did you ask that is because you know, I understand your business, but also other people aren’t asking because they’re afraid to lose it. They know if they have enough of the pipelines, they’ll do it, but like spend that extra 15 minutes to understand what they need. But it’s different. If you’ve never received a lead before to get a leader. It’s like, I’m just happy to take this call. They said, yes, let’s, let’s try to get it to this point. I’m sending out my contract, my fee agreement, let’s get it going. When the reality is are they even really the best fit? When you ask those extra questions, five, 10 minutes, it shows that person you care. And I didn’t realize that. I would assume that recruiters were always the best closers because their backgrounds, most of them do cold calling, but the reality is, you know, they need to be reminded as well to ask questions to those people.
Jason: Well and cold calling and opening is different than closing and being successful in sales. Those are generally two different types of people, two different, you know, kind of personalities that work well in either one of those. And so one doesn’t automatically mean the other. Uh Norris, you know, is it necessarily the best process for most companies? And it’s interesting when you’re talking about the leads and you know really tying it back to one of your first initial statements about the business was just asking questions and digging deep, finding it. But I think one of the key lessons for people listening is if you’re in sales and your company is either providing you with leads or there’s some kind of inbound leads that you’re paying for or receiving, whatever that is, always understand two things. One is what is the marketing saying that’s generating that lead?
Jason: You know, what does that message and how do you continue that message? Hopefully it’s in alignment with what you’re selling and what you’re saying and how you sell. And then the second part is who do you actually want to talk to? Because using your recruiter example is if you’re in recruiting and do kind of an upfront model or some kind of contract obligation model versus kind of the contingent model. Well you don’t necessarily, you know, you want who you want and you’ve got to make sure to filter through to find the right people that you want to work with and not go desperate. And then try to fight or play in the contingent landscape if that’s not your thing because you’re desperate for the deal. Right. Because then that ends up, you know, kind of like somebody back in the day looking for a house and they’d have three realtors trying to find them houses because nobody’s exclusive and it’s, you know, the first one who wins much to the disappointment to the other ones. Right. Because nobody stood up for themselves.
Joe: Right. It’s so true that you nailed it. Hit and making sure they understand that having a continuation of the conversation, you just made it much more simple.
Jason: I don’t know. I mean it’s simple, but yeah, and I think it’s, that is so important because I’ve seen a lot of people who just try to rely on the conversation or their own kind of charisma and they literally don’t understand the message coming in that the person has been seeing. Right. That’s why I say the sales experience, you know, there’s customer experience, which is a popular phrase now and it’s like, okay, what’s the customer journey, customer experience? In my mind that’s like when they’re a customer, the sales experience starts when there’s marketing where somebody first hears about a company. Does that story, is that carried through to the salesperson and then to the customer and you know, the fulfillment side of the process. So for you and you know, obviously for the recruiting side and for those recruiters, you know, what’s the biggest tip that you give to salespeople? Like what if you boiled it down, like what’s the one thing you would tell salespeople?
Joe: The biggest advice is listen to understand versus listening to respond. That’s the biggest tip I give is just really to try to listen, ask the questions. But it goes back to what you talk about the intention. Okay, check. Did I ask the questions? Yes, I did next versus I’m asking you a question. And that’s what I did when he went back to my insurance. As I looked at it, I was asking questions cause that’s what I told him to do was ask these six pages of questions. Okay, I’ve got it filled out. Now I can give you a good, you know, insurance quote. The reality was I wasn’t utilizing that the right way. Then understand it as a salesperson that that was to be used to sell. But I didn’t, you know, ask the questions and then take it one step further asking more questions.
Joe: But again, that would be the biggest thing I’ve learned was, you know, ask the question but then listen to understand versus listening. Just to respond because then we’re listening for that objection. Okay, I got that. I can handle that objection. Okay, Jason said this, but does that even your real question, is there an underlying, what else? You know, ask me one or two more questions and then really trying to understand it and going back or I think you mentioned this before, having that empathy, really understanding that person. Otherwise, you don’t understand what you’re selling. The person just told you this is their biggest fear and all of a sudden you’re saying, yeah, but I’ve got these guarantees, but this is my fear over here. But why is that your fear? Because I had a bad experience with XYZ company. And if you don’t ask enough questions, you’re not ever going to get to that. So as much as we want to, I’m a talker from much, we want to talk, it’s listening again to understand what was my biggest sales force.
Jason: Yeah. And I think I’ve mentioned this on the show before. I know I mentioned this in trainings all the time around active listening and what you’re saying, which is spot on. Listen to understand, not just to respond. I had a sales process before that had been built out. Scripts was helping people with credit card debt get into consumer credit counseling to, you know, get out of debt and avoid things like bankruptcy. And I had a new rep, I always wish I had this recording still a have a phone call. They got to the part in the conversation where it was about a hardship and so like tell me, you know, the, in the script in what we needed for the paperwork was, you know, because it’s a hardship program. Tell me about what’s happened in the last few years that caused you to get into this credit card debt or not be able to pay it.
Jason: And the guy was like, well my wife died of cancer last year after fighting it for a few years and I just have all these bills and I can’t afford it. And the rep just said, okay great. Now the next part is, and literally just rolled through, wasn’t listening, was just checking boxes and gathering information and it was absolutely terrible and totally missed the empathy step. And it’s interesting. And what I would challenge everyone, cause when you’re talking, I’m thinking about what people could do as an exercise because this happens so much in conversations in life where you might just be talking to somebody. And most people’s natural response is, as you’re talking, I’m thinking of a story that I could tell or how I could one up or what else that I could, you know, our brain is making these connections, right? So if you’re talking about, you know, you lived in San Diego, now you live here, you’re in Texas.
Jason: It’s like, okay, my brain is thinking, okay, what do I know about Texas? What story can I talk about? Like our brains just do that and we want to have these connections. We’re part of a tribe. But I would challenge everybody in your conversations in life, not just in sales, but challenge yourself to listen, to understand and just be empathetic and not really share anything about yourself. Right? Like set some time aside. Whoever you’re with, you’re in a relationship or you’re with friends, family, whatever. Ask questions. Have the other person tell their story and don’t say anything about yourself and just listen and keep asking questions. I guarantee it will blow their mind because no one ever does that.
Joe: Yeah. Yeah. I love it and I so badly just wanted to talk about it. And you’re right. We will. We want to match. We want to match that energy. And so, wanna match that story for story as opposed, so really just listened to understand even though you’ve got, you know, and it’s the one-up man vs. the one-ups or wants to relate. Oh yeah. That happened to me too. Okay. Thanks for stealing my thunder. You’re right. So that’s a great challenge for everyone to just listen and don’t say your story.
Jason: Don’t say your story. And it’s tough because I’ve been working on this for, I think about the last six months in conversations in my personal life where I’m just listening and my brain is just firing with all these things I could say and these stories and these other things I could bring up and I’m like, it doesn’t matter A. because no one else cares about you anyway. Like they’re all just thinking about themselves. And B, it’s like, you know, then that makes it about me and I want it to be about them and just listening to them and practicing that. So that’s always a tough one. And you get a pass Joe because we’re on the podcast recording, you’re supposed to be thinking of stuff to say and then responding. It’s not just the Jason, that’s why you’re here. The Jason show is on the other episodes where I just talked to myself and then that one’s easy. But yeah
Joe: People should go back and listen to as well. Cause you’ve dropped some good nuggets there.
Jason: They make it go to that where it’s just me rambling on. So Joe, before we end things here, is there anything else that, I’ll let you have the last word. What do you want to leave? Whether it’s recruiters, sales managers, owners, you know, any, anybody in sales like, Oh, would you want to leave people with outside of the listening point, which was so valid.
Joe: Yeah. What do I leave you with? I think it’s really, besides the listening point, like I said, I wish I had just really gone, gone back, continue to work hard, continue to follow up because people that you hear that again so many times people don’t care. They know care how much you know to know how much you care. But I think really when you become invested in the other person’s results, so whatever it is you’re selling a product or service thinking about how that’s going to affect the other person and you know what their life will be like after they get that. And so long as you have something ethical and good that you’re selling, that is going to have, you know, that’s why I think the small caveat, but, and probably works for other things as well. But think about that. Just really think about that person and you know, sales is about getting other people to do what you want for their reasons. So if you can really get somebody to do with what you want them to do, but for their reasons and really see them with that end result, then you won’t feel like selling. You’ll feel like helping and yeah, I think you’ll get a lot more sales.
Jason: That’s awesome. So Joe, where can people find information about you, contact you? What? Where do you want people to go?
Joe: I would say probably LinkedIn. I’m kind of, I’m a lot of LinkedIn. I’ve got quite a bit of connections, but I’m active, very active on LinkedIn. So Joe Rizzo, a company where this Tash results, so you can find me there. Joe at [inaudible] dot com is my email phone. Once we, I do read my emails, I get help though sometimes people make sure I don’t miss them on my team. So I’m fortunate. But yeah, Joe Tash Rizzo, or Joe Rizzo on LinkedIn.
Jason: Perfect. Joe, thank you for being on the show and being such an amazing guest who literally might been the one so far, who’s listened to the most episodes and you know, come with so much awesome value to people listening. So I appreciate you being on the show.
Joe: Well thanks for providing all this value for the entire audience and for me as well. Thanks Jason.
Jason: Yeah, I think combined, we will definitely work to continue to change the landscape for sales. So for everyone else listening, make sure to go to cutterconsultinggroup.com you can find the podcast, the show notes, the transcript of these episodes, all of Joe’s links as well, and make sure to subscribe so you can get all these episodes. And as always, keep in mind that everything in life is sales and people remember the experience you gave them.